I’ll offer a book to the reader who asked for some help in clarifying the Palestinian situation: _The War of Return: How Western Indulgence of the Palestinian Dream Has Obstructed the Path to Peace_ by Einat Wilf and Adi Schwartz. Short synopsis: the Palestinians want the Jews out of Israel in order to “reclaim” their homeland. It isn’t going to happen and giving encouragement to the Palestinians does nothing more than prolong their misery.
Rhodes comments in The NY Times you quoted went on to say that he/they would load the 27 year old reporters with what they wanted them to report and set them loose as a way to promote the administrations point of view. It was a shocking admission given without the slightest apology.
As Winston Churchill noted, “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.... I would posit that in the days of social media, that lie has done endless circuits of the earth, before the proverbial pants get put on....
There is little point engaging. Even should your counterparty hear or read you out, he *cannot* comprehend what you are saying, and could in any case shift to any of a million other excuses for his motivated reasoning.
You suppose you are arguing “over his head” to those with open minds. I doubt it. If there are any left, they are unlikely to find their way through the roar of propaganda noise to your argument.
Hamas is the sole cause of Arab suffering in Gaza. It assuredly knew the repercussions of its acts on Oct. 7 and assessed that they were a feature, not a bug. Hamas knows it cannot possibly defeat the IDF militarily and is thus almost entirely dependent on the propaganda war. It is not coincidental that so-called "civilian" death statistics are somehow churned-out with clock-like precision despite the IDF breathing down Hamas's neck. The strategy is to inflame the Muslim world and other useful idiots by reinstating a blood libel against the Jewish state. That is the key to victory. And a look at the news and pundits at any given moment makes one realize that these evil barbarians are also uncannily savvy.
Thank you for this. I have also found the discussion by Russ Roberts on EconTalk to be informative about the current situation and what went before (e.g., interviews with Michael Oren, Hillel Cohen, Daniel Gordis)
I am strongly of the opinion that Israel needs to err on the side of more violence than less to counter the poisonous myths of Hamass and others that any loss that is not abject is in fact a victory. This is of course aided by the way that the "great and the good" in the Western world seem to bend over backwards to blame Israel and pour more money in aid into Gaza where Hamass and co can use it to build more rockets and tunnels to attack Israel.
I wrote about this on my substack this weekend, where I tried to explain why I support Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan.
I must say, Mr. G., that the number of comments suggests that you have successfully argued “over the head” of the Jew-hater. But I suggest that your corps of commenters are really Jew-non-haters, not undecideds.
Nice break down of the comment. I’ve been baffled all of my life regarding antisemitism - it just doesn’t compute in my brain. Jewish Americans have been part of the fabric of America life since the founding of the US - they are an integral part of who we are as Americans. I just can’t understand anyone believing a terrorist organization over a people who’ve held together for millennia, and contribute so much to humanity.
Robert, as always a joy to read. I don’t think I can add much to the conversation but to add a little remembered but important book “From time Immemorial” by Joan Peters. She discusses the origins of the Arab population in what became Israel. Many if not most of the Arab population in what became Israel were new comers to the land having emigrated from surrounding position centers as the economic revival of the land increased as Jews emigrated to the area. Also note before 1948 the people living in what was to become Israel called Palestinian’s were
Jews, the other people living there were called Arabs. The Arab population took on the name in the 1960’s to create a people distinct from the surrounding countries. Since that time they have become distinct because of where they live (Israel) and where they live and are discriminated against (camps in other countries). This won’t change a closed minded person’s opinion but could help some people understand the history of population movements in the area.
I had to look that one up. Surprisingly, Rhodes' admission wasn't one of the examples listed. :) Should have been. It got a bit of attention at the time but only in certain quarters, if you get my drift. Read nothing further about it in the Times. Maybe the editor was sacked.
I recommend this recent book by Robert Spencer: 'The Palestinian Delusion: The Catastrophic History of the Middle East Peace Process." This book includes the Balfour Declaration but starts well before that. The book states that the root cause of the conflict is Islam, as presented in the Quran, Hadith, and Sunna.
As usual, their claims simply reverse what they've done. A number of former hostages have testified to their surgeries without anesthetic. Some examples:
I’ll offer a book to the reader who asked for some help in clarifying the Palestinian situation: _The War of Return: How Western Indulgence of the Palestinian Dream Has Obstructed the Path to Peace_ by Einat Wilf and Adi Schwartz. Short synopsis: the Palestinians want the Jews out of Israel in order to “reclaim” their homeland. It isn’t going to happen and giving encouragement to the Palestinians does nothing more than prolong their misery.
Bookmarked to send to my incurious Israel-critical acquaintances.
A brilliant and point-by-point destruction of an emotionally driven comment by using facts.
Rhodes comments in The NY Times you quoted went on to say that he/they would load the 27 year old reporters with what they wanted them to report and set them loose as a way to promote the administrations point of view. It was a shocking admission given without the slightest apology.
As Winston Churchill noted, “A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.... I would posit that in the days of social media, that lie has done endless circuits of the earth, before the proverbial pants get put on....
There is little point engaging. Even should your counterparty hear or read you out, he *cannot* comprehend what you are saying, and could in any case shift to any of a million other excuses for his motivated reasoning.
You suppose you are arguing “over his head” to those with open minds. I doubt it. If there are any left, they are unlikely to find their way through the roar of propaganda noise to your argument.
Hamas is the sole cause of Arab suffering in Gaza. It assuredly knew the repercussions of its acts on Oct. 7 and assessed that they were a feature, not a bug. Hamas knows it cannot possibly defeat the IDF militarily and is thus almost entirely dependent on the propaganda war. It is not coincidental that so-called "civilian" death statistics are somehow churned-out with clock-like precision despite the IDF breathing down Hamas's neck. The strategy is to inflame the Muslim world and other useful idiots by reinstating a blood libel against the Jewish state. That is the key to victory. And a look at the news and pundits at any given moment makes one realize that these evil barbarians are also uncannily savvy.
Point by point rational and logical exploration of emotional accusations- thank you!
Thank you for this. I have also found the discussion by Russ Roberts on EconTalk to be informative about the current situation and what went before (e.g., interviews with Michael Oren, Hillel Cohen, Daniel Gordis)
I am strongly of the opinion that Israel needs to err on the side of more violence than less to counter the poisonous myths of Hamass and others that any loss that is not abject is in fact a victory. This is of course aided by the way that the "great and the good" in the Western world seem to bend over backwards to blame Israel and pour more money in aid into Gaza where Hamass and co can use it to build more rockets and tunnels to attack Israel.
I wrote about this on my substack this weekend, where I tried to explain why I support Israel, Ukraine and Taiwan.
https://ombreolivier.substack.com/p/supporting-ukraine-israel-and-taiwan
I get the feeling that a lot of Western governments don't actually want to see either Russia or Hamass utterly defeated and I really don't get it
I must say, Mr. G., that the number of comments suggests that you have successfully argued “over the head” of the Jew-hater. But I suggest that your corps of commenters are really Jew-non-haters, not undecideds.
Nice break down of the comment. I’ve been baffled all of my life regarding antisemitism - it just doesn’t compute in my brain. Jewish Americans have been part of the fabric of America life since the founding of the US - they are an integral part of who we are as Americans. I just can’t understand anyone believing a terrorist organization over a people who’ve held together for millennia, and contribute so much to humanity.
Robert, as always a joy to read. I don’t think I can add much to the conversation but to add a little remembered but important book “From time Immemorial” by Joan Peters. She discusses the origins of the Arab population in what became Israel. Many if not most of the Arab population in what became Israel were new comers to the land having emigrated from surrounding position centers as the economic revival of the land increased as Jews emigrated to the area. Also note before 1948 the people living in what was to become Israel called Palestinian’s were
Jews, the other people living there were called Arabs. The Arab population took on the name in the 1960’s to create a people distinct from the surrounding countries. Since that time they have become distinct because of where they live (Israel) and where they live and are discriminated against (camps in other countries). This won’t change a closed minded person’s opinion but could help some people understand the history of population movements in the area.
I had to look that one up. Surprisingly, Rhodes' admission wasn't one of the examples listed. :) Should have been. It got a bit of attention at the time but only in certain quarters, if you get my drift. Read nothing further about it in the Times. Maybe the editor was sacked.
I recommend this recent book by Robert Spencer: 'The Palestinian Delusion: The Catastrophic History of the Middle East Peace Process." This book includes the Balfour Declaration but starts well before that. The book states that the root cause of the conflict is Islam, as presented in the Quran, Hadith, and Sunna.
As usual, their claims simply reverse what they've done. A number of former hostages have testified to their surgeries without anesthetic. Some examples:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/released-hostage-mia-schem-says-she-was-held-in-gaza-hospital-operated-on-without-painkillers/
https://www.timesofisrael.com/freed-hostage-itay-regev-gazan-doctor-pulled-bullet-from-my-leg-without-anesthesia/