My first thought was that your creative mind had found a way to link the hapless first mate of TV fame with the excellent song writer, but instead you crafted another well thought out essay and list, educating me about the works of two I wasn’t really aware of. Another example of why I spend time with Substack.
My first thought was that he had somehow managed to compare the intelligence of the award to Bob Dylan with the intelligence of that “mighty sailing man,” presumably to the advantage of the latter.
Dr. Graboyes’ mileage apparently differs, but for me the award to Bob Dylan was the final and irrefutable argument for the perversion and irrelevancy of the Literature Prize.
I actually had suggested Dylan for the prize for some years, but I understand your viewpoint, as well. However, if you view Dylan as the last straw on the perversion and irrelevancy of the prize, you might look into some earlier recipients. Kind of like saying "Giving the Peace Prize to the EU proves the irrelevancy" 18 years after it had already gone to Arafat and 11 years after the UN got it.
I have a piece in the works discussing three extraordinarily important figures of the 20th century whom most readers will never have heard of. Borlaug is one of the three.
Well …. Bastiat’s Window readers are an elevated lot, so maybe they have. :) But seriously, I’m surprised how often people I know have not heard of him. Honestly, I don’t remember when he first came on my own horizon.
This reminds me a bit of the joke for which I am best known: that giving the [1974] Nobel [Memorial] Prize in Economics to Friedrich Hayek and Gunnar Myrdal was like giving the Nobel Prize in Physics to Murray Gell-Mann and Uri Gellar.
Again I say: you think of things, or at least you think in ways about things, that most of us do not. It's why I'm here.
I would have put "Band of Brothers" on my list, but I suppose it was at least partly historical. It definitely put more tears in my eyes than "The Sopranos" ever did.
Band of Brothers is fantastic but it is a work of dramatized non fiction. This piece discusses the television series as literature which to me means fiction.
Fascinating read. I’m more inclined toward movies (like a great short story) than television. As good as it is, I usually don’t want to commit the time. But it makes sense to treat it seriously as literature.
I always look for the great limited series. Many great television shows would have been best as 1, 2 or at most 3 season series but went on way too long. Dexter is the best example of this.
And that's where streaming has gone. And, indeed, there are some spectacular limited series out there. Had I included those in my list, I would have mentioned "The Night of ..." -- a truly riveting 8-episode production. I almost included it on my list, but decided that the shortest would be "The Prisoner." These days, limiteds are most of what we watch, along with catching up of full-length serials (e.g., "Six Feet Under") that we had missed.
Glad you enjoyed it! Given the quality of what appears in your Substack, I'm especially pleased by your thoughts. Perhaps you can visit the issue with your readers.
I expect that will be the case. I know quite a bit about "The Sopranos" already--including the controversial final scene. (I quite like how they ended it.) I also have ready a ton of critiques discussing weaknesses in the series--all of which noted that they were in uncharted territory. Series like "The Wire" and "Breaking Bad" had the benefit of seeing where "The Sopranos" occasionally stumbled and were able to profit by that example. We have seen the early episodes and really liked them. For some reason, we got distracted and vowed to finish the series at a later date. I think that later date has now arrived. Big time commitment, but we're veterans at bingeing--3-4 weeks at most.
The shows Prof. Graboyes mentioned are all interesting and well done, but not my cup of tea (way too much violence), although I enjoyed the earlier episodes of “Better Call Saul.” The Nobel folks missed the boat in not awarding their prize to Jay Sommers and Dick Chevillat.
Not sure how far you got into Breaking Bad, but the worst of the violence was in the first few episodes. For me, it was violent in a biblical sense--necessary and not gratuitous. At the time, I read an essay by some minister or priest arguing that BB was the most Christian show he had ever seen, and why he discussed the series at length in his church. Gilligan had a deep interest in theology and seems to have structured the series (purposefully or accidentally) as the Bible is structured. Characters constantly face choices, knowing in advance what the consequences will be. Like Lucifer, Walter White is adept at persuading them to make the wrong choices and, indeed, they suffer the fruits of their ill-chosen decisions. The question I discussed in my earlier essay is whether they have free will or whether they are powerless to resist. In BB, the violence serves a purpose--to demonstrate the monstrosity of their choices and the depth of their moral failings. ... As for Better Call Saul, we actually didn't like the first few episodes and thought the show would be the typical substandard sequel. We started it twice and gave up. A friend said to push through a bit farther, and when we did, it just got better and better and better. The finale is one of the most profound pieces of television that I've ever seen.
And as for Sommers and Chevillat, I am likely one of the few readers who didn't have to look up who you were talking about. And actually, I think they deserved the Nobel Prize in Physics for conjuring up the alternative laws of physics (and metaphysics) that prevailed throughout the show. When I read your comment, my thoughts went straight to "Olivah...do you know anyone named Jay Sommers or Dick Chevrolet? I dreamed their names were over us!" I own the full set of DVDs. :)
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Professor Graboyes. I admit it never crossed my mind to consider “Breaking Bad” in terms of the Bible. I’ll have to think long and hard about it from that perspective.
Vince Gilligan is a very good writer; I enjoyed his work on “The X-Files” and “Je Souhaite” (about the genie) is one of my favorite episodes. I’m not familiar with David Simon’s work.
I like to spend my entertainment dollar, so to speak, on things that leave me feeling happier or more enlightened than I was before watching them. A huge plus for me is when I’m left thinking about a show long after seeing it - it’s like I’m getting a bonus value for my metaphorical dollar. “Don Juan DeMarco” is an example of a movie I enjoyed while I was watching it and then spent time afterward still thinking about it. For some reason, though, If a show has graphic violence and/or cruelty, that’s what I seem to fixate on, and it definitely doesn’t leave me happier than I was before.
My wife is in your camp that “Breaking Bad” is a masterpiece, so maybe I’ll give it a shot.
I was only half joking about “Green Acres.” The absurd humor itself was and is still a delight, but the fact the writers got away with it during the mid-1960s on broadcast TV is remarkable! (I love that example of the self-referential humor you quoted, among the many instances of it during the show’s run.)
Thank you again for an enjoyable post and your kind replies.
I do have a taste for dark humor, and Breaking Bad is loaded with it. I did tell a friend with views similar to yours that she might want to start with Better Call Saul and then watch Breaking Bad afterward. She was very hesitant, but took at least the first part of my advice and watched BCS. She was awestruck by it. Not sure whether she has begun BB. But BB ended 11 years ago, and I still think about it all the time.
And yes, Green Acres was dazzling. Not sure it started out that way. at the beginning, Lisa was a conventional unlikeable rich snoot. Very quickly, somehow, they realized that she played much better as happy, loopy, and far more comfortable with Hooverville than Oliver. I’m not certain that the surrealism and self-referential aspects were originally part of the deal. But lord, did they have fun with that weirdness. I love the fact that they somehow took fairly conventional Petticoat Junction characters (e.g., Sam Drucker) and simultaneously made them surreal Green Acres characters without the inconsistencies damaging them on either show. It was genius writing, and there was nothing else like it.
So glad you mentioned The Prisoner. One of my all time favorites and few people (outside of British writers) seem to have seen it. Great great show with both an amazing beginning (replayed at the start of nearly every episode) and one of the best final episodes ever.
Proud to say that I was riveted by it when I was a mere 14 years old. I made a small reel-to-reel recording of the second of the final courtroom scene. I've always thought that was a surreal re-do of the courtroom scene from "A Man for All Seasons," though I'm not sure I've ever read anyone else say that. Leo McKern was in both productions, so I assume there was a connection. I also like the fact that conventional viewers were so outraged by the ending that McGoohan had to leave Britain for a while for the sake of safety. And he was perpetually defiant about his choices. I once worked for a lunatic, stoically defied that person for years, and, in the end, prevailed spectacularly. When I did, my wife congratulated me by presenting me with an illustrated history of "The Prisoner."
My first thought was that your creative mind had found a way to link the hapless first mate of TV fame with the excellent song writer, but instead you crafted another well thought out essay and list, educating me about the works of two I wasn’t really aware of. Another example of why I spend time with Substack.
:)
My first thought was that he had somehow managed to compare the intelligence of the award to Bob Dylan with the intelligence of that “mighty sailing man,” presumably to the advantage of the latter.
:)
Dr. Graboyes’ mileage apparently differs, but for me the award to Bob Dylan was the final and irrefutable argument for the perversion and irrelevancy of the Literature Prize.
I actually had suggested Dylan for the prize for some years, but I understand your viewpoint, as well. However, if you view Dylan as the last straw on the perversion and irrelevancy of the prize, you might look into some earlier recipients. Kind of like saying "Giving the Peace Prize to the EU proves the irrelevancy" 18 years after it had already gone to Arafat and 11 years after the UN got it.
Fair comment about the Peace Prize, which is even more ridiculous than the Literature Prize and has been for longer.
On the other hand, they did give the Peace Prize to Norman Borlaug; that may not make up for Le Duc Tho but it makes up for a lot.
I have a piece in the works discussing three extraordinarily important figures of the 20th century whom most readers will never have heard of. Borlaug is one of the three.
Can it really be true that most readers have never heard of Borlaug?
Well …. Bastiat’s Window readers are an elevated lot, so maybe they have. :) But seriously, I’m surprised how often people I know have not heard of him. Honestly, I don’t remember when he first came on my own horizon.
File under: Candor, Refreshing
As to the literature prize, what previous award approaches the triviality of the songwriter’s oeuvre?
And after this precedent, who would be surprised by (were fashion to decree it) a Nobel Prize for Literature in greeting cards?
I’ll leave my Worst Literature Nobels to speculation. :) Greeting cards would be an improvement on some.
This reminds me a bit of the joke for which I am best known: that giving the [1974] Nobel [Memorial] Prize in Economics to Friedrich Hayek and Gunnar Myrdal was like giving the Nobel Prize in Physics to Murray Gell-Mann and Uri Gellar.
Again I say: you think of things, or at least you think in ways about things, that most of us do not. It's why I'm here.
I would have put "Band of Brothers" on my list, but I suppose it was at least partly historical. It definitely put more tears in my eyes than "The Sopranos" ever did.
Band of Brothers is fantastic but it is a work of dramatized non fiction. This piece discusses the television series as literature which to me means fiction.
Winston Churchill won a Nobel for Literature, but not for his fiction. However, "BoB" was a one-off, and probably wouldn't qualify on that basis.
BOB is also the dramatization of a book so it's not really an original work the way BB is.
Deadwood & Game of Thrones also deserve mentions.
Noteworthy projects. We started them and stopped quickly. Just a matter of taste.
Fascinating read. I’m more inclined toward movies (like a great short story) than television. As good as it is, I usually don’t want to commit the time. But it makes sense to treat it seriously as literature.
I always look for the great limited series. Many great television shows would have been best as 1, 2 or at most 3 season series but went on way too long. Dexter is the best example of this.
And that's where streaming has gone. And, indeed, there are some spectacular limited series out there. Had I included those in my list, I would have mentioned "The Night of ..." -- a truly riveting 8-episode production. I almost included it on my list, but decided that the shortest would be "The Prisoner." These days, limiteds are most of what we watch, along with catching up of full-length serials (e.g., "Six Feet Under") that we had missed.
Same although there are some good new ones out there. I would include Fargo on the list. Each new season is a new limited series and it's fantastic.
I agree. It was on my list of possibilities. (We have a LONNNNNG list of series we've seen and recommend.)
Glad you enjoyed it! Given the quality of what appears in your Substack, I'm especially pleased by your thoughts. Perhaps you can visit the issue with your readers.
The Sopranos will surely rise to the top of your list. I would put BB/BCS above it but Sopranos right after.
I expect that will be the case. I know quite a bit about "The Sopranos" already--including the controversial final scene. (I quite like how they ended it.) I also have ready a ton of critiques discussing weaknesses in the series--all of which noted that they were in uncharted territory. Series like "The Wire" and "Breaking Bad" had the benefit of seeing where "The Sopranos" occasionally stumbled and were able to profit by that example. We have seen the early episodes and really liked them. For some reason, we got distracted and vowed to finish the series at a later date. I think that later date has now arrived. Big time commitment, but we're veterans at bingeing--3-4 weeks at most.
The shows Prof. Graboyes mentioned are all interesting and well done, but not my cup of tea (way too much violence), although I enjoyed the earlier episodes of “Better Call Saul.” The Nobel folks missed the boat in not awarding their prize to Jay Sommers and Dick Chevillat.
Not sure how far you got into Breaking Bad, but the worst of the violence was in the first few episodes. For me, it was violent in a biblical sense--necessary and not gratuitous. At the time, I read an essay by some minister or priest arguing that BB was the most Christian show he had ever seen, and why he discussed the series at length in his church. Gilligan had a deep interest in theology and seems to have structured the series (purposefully or accidentally) as the Bible is structured. Characters constantly face choices, knowing in advance what the consequences will be. Like Lucifer, Walter White is adept at persuading them to make the wrong choices and, indeed, they suffer the fruits of their ill-chosen decisions. The question I discussed in my earlier essay is whether they have free will or whether they are powerless to resist. In BB, the violence serves a purpose--to demonstrate the monstrosity of their choices and the depth of their moral failings. ... As for Better Call Saul, we actually didn't like the first few episodes and thought the show would be the typical substandard sequel. We started it twice and gave up. A friend said to push through a bit farther, and when we did, it just got better and better and better. The finale is one of the most profound pieces of television that I've ever seen.
And as for Sommers and Chevillat, I am likely one of the few readers who didn't have to look up who you were talking about. And actually, I think they deserved the Nobel Prize in Physics for conjuring up the alternative laws of physics (and metaphysics) that prevailed throughout the show. When I read your comment, my thoughts went straight to "Olivah...do you know anyone named Jay Sommers or Dick Chevrolet? I dreamed their names were over us!" I own the full set of DVDs. :)
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Professor Graboyes. I admit it never crossed my mind to consider “Breaking Bad” in terms of the Bible. I’ll have to think long and hard about it from that perspective.
Vince Gilligan is a very good writer; I enjoyed his work on “The X-Files” and “Je Souhaite” (about the genie) is one of my favorite episodes. I’m not familiar with David Simon’s work.
I like to spend my entertainment dollar, so to speak, on things that leave me feeling happier or more enlightened than I was before watching them. A huge plus for me is when I’m left thinking about a show long after seeing it - it’s like I’m getting a bonus value for my metaphorical dollar. “Don Juan DeMarco” is an example of a movie I enjoyed while I was watching it and then spent time afterward still thinking about it. For some reason, though, If a show has graphic violence and/or cruelty, that’s what I seem to fixate on, and it definitely doesn’t leave me happier than I was before.
My wife is in your camp that “Breaking Bad” is a masterpiece, so maybe I’ll give it a shot.
I was only half joking about “Green Acres.” The absurd humor itself was and is still a delight, but the fact the writers got away with it during the mid-1960s on broadcast TV is remarkable! (I love that example of the self-referential humor you quoted, among the many instances of it during the show’s run.)
Thank you again for an enjoyable post and your kind replies.
I do have a taste for dark humor, and Breaking Bad is loaded with it. I did tell a friend with views similar to yours that she might want to start with Better Call Saul and then watch Breaking Bad afterward. She was very hesitant, but took at least the first part of my advice and watched BCS. She was awestruck by it. Not sure whether she has begun BB. But BB ended 11 years ago, and I still think about it all the time.
And yes, Green Acres was dazzling. Not sure it started out that way. at the beginning, Lisa was a conventional unlikeable rich snoot. Very quickly, somehow, they realized that she played much better as happy, loopy, and far more comfortable with Hooverville than Oliver. I’m not certain that the surrealism and self-referential aspects were originally part of the deal. But lord, did they have fun with that weirdness. I love the fact that they somehow took fairly conventional Petticoat Junction characters (e.g., Sam Drucker) and simultaneously made them surreal Green Acres characters without the inconsistencies damaging them on either show. It was genius writing, and there was nothing else like it.
So glad you mentioned The Prisoner. One of my all time favorites and few people (outside of British writers) seem to have seen it. Great great show with both an amazing beginning (replayed at the start of nearly every episode) and one of the best final episodes ever.
Proud to say that I was riveted by it when I was a mere 14 years old. I made a small reel-to-reel recording of the second of the final courtroom scene. I've always thought that was a surreal re-do of the courtroom scene from "A Man for All Seasons," though I'm not sure I've ever read anyone else say that. Leo McKern was in both productions, so I assume there was a connection. I also like the fact that conventional viewers were so outraged by the ending that McGoohan had to leave Britain for a while for the sake of safety. And he was perpetually defiant about his choices. I once worked for a lunatic, stoically defied that person for years, and, in the end, prevailed spectacularly. When I did, my wife congratulated me by presenting me with an illustrated history of "The Prisoner."