America's destructive disdain for vocational-technical education. Innovation's need for small, nimble firms. Real-world eyeballing as check on academic stats. Different kinds of thinkers. Etc.
I was in middle school in the mid fifties. We had "industrial arts" classes, and I loved them (counterpart of home economics classes for the girls). I thought they were the best part of middle school, but then I got sidetracked into pre-university studies, then university and a good career, but I always wondered if I would have enjoyed some kind of hands-on job as much or more. My oldest daughter is the principal of a technical high school in WV, where the students learn construction, HVAC, veterinary assistant work, plumbing, and jobs like that. Those all are very necessary jobs in their neighborhoods (and probably a lot of other places) and graduates are in high demand and immediately hired.
We in this country need a lot more of what is being done at her school. Not just to keep kids off the streets, but to have them properly trained to perform jobs that are going unfilled right now. Fortunately, trades are in such high demand these days that people can make a decent living at them, so market forces will gradually get us back on track to have plumbers and electricians paid what they are truly worth to society.
Interesting observation. Perhaps a difference. No idea whether Musk was diagnosed as autistic or whether, as in Temple’s case, it was THE defining fact of early life. Temple talks about likely spectrum-dwellers—Einstein, Jobs, etc.—but they were not publicly declared in their autism; nor were they activists in that sphere. Maybe it’s fair to say that Temple is an autistic person who became a renowned scientist, whereas Musk is a renowned business and technology leader who is/might be autistic. And Temple’s work on autism has been as prominent in her adult life as has her work in animal science; not true at this stage of Musk. … But these are the casual observations of an outsider.
I wholeheartedly support what she had to say about vocational training in high school. In Holland there was no such thing as a High School that everyone attended. Instead there were (I'm estimating) at least a half dozen to choose from. To start at the bottom (and this is not meant as a putdown) there was the "Huishoudschool" (=household or housekeeping school) for girls who had no "higher ambitions" to learn cooking, cleaning, child care and so on. Then there was the "Ambachtschool" or trade school, which trained boys for the building trades, metal shop, car repair and so on. My father had attended that school and learned to work with metal, including welding. Then there was the MULO or ULO; I don't remember what those abbreviations meant, but those schools provided 2 or 3 years of training for office work, like typing, filing, bookkeeping, and so on. Then there was the HBS, which provided 4 or 5 years of training of people who wanted a business or government career; that curriculum included math and physical sciences plus foreign languages; and finally there was the "Gymnasium", which had nothing to with gymnastics but offered, besides math and modern foreign languages, also Latin and Greek, with Hebrew optional. Gymnasium was the one I attended, though I refused to study Hebrew as an option, because I had no intention of becoming a Man of the Cloth.
I don't doubt that any American kid attending any of these Dutch schools might feel out of place, because there was very little attention paid to sports, and hardly any rah-rah sports competitions between schools; and whichever school you attended, the teachers were pretty demanding.
But after all these years I remain convinced that the Dutch get far more for their time and money than Americans get; in fact, things have gotten worse in this country because so many High Schools have abandoned all vocational education as if it served no purpose, which is near-criminal, for by the time they "graduate", a lot of boys are so sick of school they won't consider entering the trades -- which nowadays can provide a better living than a college degree.
I should add I met Temple at an Organic Valley annual meeting, she help write our animal care standards. At lunch I handed her the salad bowl and she replied, Oh no thank you, I wouldn't dream of depriving some rabbit of their food. Loved it!
Had trouble posting before but my point was that the Land Grant universities abandoned the field try to be research universities. Then the high schools bailed trying to be college prep. So we had to invent the community colleges. Sadly though voc/tech tends to get squeezed out there what with trying of repair the damage of K12 and do transfers to 4 year colleges.
When I finished my doctorate in math, I was trying to figure out what I can do for employment; at one point, I thought it would be prudent to try a machining class. I enjoyed it, and I wished I had started out learning machining, blacksmithing, and carpentry as my first year of college. It probably would have kept my student loans to a minimum, and who knows? Maybe it would have been career! And if not, the physical grounding that these subjects provide would have been useful as I studied math, or considered engineering or physics!
"I have a thing where I say, “We’ve got to get the suits out of the office,” so that something is not just a spreadsheet."
An unpardonable faux-pas amongst the Professional Managerial Class. Same with the "ask at a liquor store" response.
I was in middle school in the mid fifties. We had "industrial arts" classes, and I loved them (counterpart of home economics classes for the girls). I thought they were the best part of middle school, but then I got sidetracked into pre-university studies, then university and a good career, but I always wondered if I would have enjoyed some kind of hands-on job as much or more. My oldest daughter is the principal of a technical high school in WV, where the students learn construction, HVAC, veterinary assistant work, plumbing, and jobs like that. Those all are very necessary jobs in their neighborhoods (and probably a lot of other places) and graduates are in high demand and immediately hired.
We in this country need a lot more of what is being done at her school. Not just to keep kids off the streets, but to have them properly trained to perform jobs that are going unfilled right now. Fortunately, trades are in such high demand these days that people can make a decent living at them, so market forces will gradually get us back on track to have plumbers and electricians paid what they are truly worth to society.
Inspiring story though I have to say that the most visible face of someone on the spectrum is Elon Musk.
Interesting observation. Perhaps a difference. No idea whether Musk was diagnosed as autistic or whether, as in Temple’s case, it was THE defining fact of early life. Temple talks about likely spectrum-dwellers—Einstein, Jobs, etc.—but they were not publicly declared in their autism; nor were they activists in that sphere. Maybe it’s fair to say that Temple is an autistic person who became a renowned scientist, whereas Musk is a renowned business and technology leader who is/might be autistic. And Temple’s work on autism has been as prominent in her adult life as has her work in animal science; not true at this stage of Musk. … But these are the casual observations of an outsider.
Musk is public about being on the spectrum. No idea how much. I think I am too though I am not as brilliant as them.
I wholeheartedly support what she had to say about vocational training in high school. In Holland there was no such thing as a High School that everyone attended. Instead there were (I'm estimating) at least a half dozen to choose from. To start at the bottom (and this is not meant as a putdown) there was the "Huishoudschool" (=household or housekeeping school) for girls who had no "higher ambitions" to learn cooking, cleaning, child care and so on. Then there was the "Ambachtschool" or trade school, which trained boys for the building trades, metal shop, car repair and so on. My father had attended that school and learned to work with metal, including welding. Then there was the MULO or ULO; I don't remember what those abbreviations meant, but those schools provided 2 or 3 years of training for office work, like typing, filing, bookkeeping, and so on. Then there was the HBS, which provided 4 or 5 years of training of people who wanted a business or government career; that curriculum included math and physical sciences plus foreign languages; and finally there was the "Gymnasium", which had nothing to with gymnastics but offered, besides math and modern foreign languages, also Latin and Greek, with Hebrew optional. Gymnasium was the one I attended, though I refused to study Hebrew as an option, because I had no intention of becoming a Man of the Cloth.
I don't doubt that any American kid attending any of these Dutch schools might feel out of place, because there was very little attention paid to sports, and hardly any rah-rah sports competitions between schools; and whichever school you attended, the teachers were pretty demanding.
But after all these years I remain convinced that the Dutch get far more for their time and money than Americans get; in fact, things have gotten worse in this country because so many High Schools have abandoned all vocational education as if it served no purpose, which is near-criminal, for by the time they "graduate", a lot of boys are so sick of school they won't consider entering the trades -- which nowadays can provide a better living than a college degree.
I bloomed in Ind-Arts and FFA/Vo-Ag, the rest I hated,except lit. class. I've been a dairy farmer all of my 66 years
I should add I met Temple at an Organic Valley annual meeting, she help write our animal care standards. At lunch I handed her the salad bowl and she replied, Oh no thank you, I wouldn't dream of depriving some rabbit of their food. Loved it!
Had trouble posting before but my point was that the Land Grant universities abandoned the field try to be research universities. Then the high schools bailed trying to be college prep. So we had to invent the community colleges. Sadly though voc/tech tends to get squeezed out there what with trying of repair the damage of K12 and do transfers to 4 year colleges.
When I finished my doctorate in math, I was trying to figure out what I can do for employment; at one point, I thought it would be prudent to try a machining class. I enjoyed it, and I wished I had started out learning machining, blacksmithing, and carpentry as my first year of college. It probably would have kept my student loans to a minimum, and who knows? Maybe it would have been career! And if not, the physical grounding that these subjects provide would have been useful as I studied math, or considered engineering or physics!